QUOTE

GemZombie had written in a different topic: Nothing irritates me more (and it just happened again to me 2 days ago) then when someone tries to explain to me that when I do a six count step, I'm not doing Lindy Hop.

RANT ALERT:
As most of you know, I love our scene here, and also have a lot o' love for the fab follows I have the pleasure of dancing with. I generally smile for and enjoy dancing with people of all levels and all styles.

There are, however, a few exceptions. :angry:

There's this one follow in particular who's experienced, but not nearly as good as she thinks she is.
I had blindly asked her to dance one time, not knowing her or her level, and I started off in closed position and then for the first few measures did basic six count stuff, like under arm turns, etc. About 10-15 seconds into the song, she glares at me and says in disgust, "You DO know Lindy Hop, don't you?!"

I smiled, said yes, and then sent her on a dozen or so swingouts in a row. She had a look of annoyance, then horror, then mild exhaustion that was just priceless :)

A few months later, I had the mispleasure of catching her in rotation for a workshop, and this time the charmer insisted with exasperation, "Could we start on the one?!" (despite the fact that, with perhaps a very momentary pause, I WAS starting on the one!). Matching my earlier experience, I was very tempted to then start every move on the two or two-and-a-half, but I realized that I probably couldn't pull this off even if I wanted to :D

Lest there be any question about this, I should note that this particular follow has irked several of my leader friends, some of whom have various nicknames for her that should not be discussed here in polite or even semi-polite company.

After I relayed this most recent experience to one of my friends, she good humoredly suggested a few ways I could have handled the situation. But I'm curious to get more feedback.

Should I confront this woman immediately the next time she sneers or makes a rude comment in class? Or perhaps have a brief and blunt talk with her afterwards? I've also been tempted to say something to the instructors, but have resisted this since I think it's a bit petty and immature to avoid speaking with the person directly.

Yes, I'm personally peeved about this follow, but I also am concerned about other leads in this class, many of whom have only been dancing a few months and may take her insulting behavior more to heart.

However, while it's possible this woman just doesn't realize that her behavior is rude (in which case she might appreciate being set straight), there's also the possibility that she knows she's being unduly harsh and simply doesn't care, in which case confronting her would exacerbate, not help the issue.

Lastly, do keep one thing in mind. I'm bringing up this situation here not because I'm losing sleep over the issue, but rather because I think it's interesting to consider in the general sense.

Your thoughts?

Use duct tape on her mouth and if that doesn't work kick her in the shin.

I've never experienced rudeness to that degree on the social floor, but when mild rudeness happens, I just ignore it for the duration of the dance and then NEVER ask her to dance again. I've had a know-it-all follow in class once, though, and I just put on my best naive I'm-so-confused face and asked the instructor to clarify the move that the know-it-all was trying to get me to do the wrong way. Subtle, and she acknowledged with genuine surprise that she was doing it the wrong way after the instructor explained it.

Talk about a contridiction-- a "know-it-all" who feels the need to take classes hmmm..... :huh:

C'MON ADAM WE WANT A NAME!! You can't tease us like this!

ok keep it on the DL and send me a PM

Gag! While I've encountered rudeness, I've never seen that level of just plain nastiness before. This follow is one of the big reasons why the scenes lose newbies. They meet up with someone like her who puts them down and they quit.

Well, better she should be the one to quit than have her scaring people off, so I say you and your fellow leaders simply agree amongst yourselves that the next time you encounter such rude behavior from her you call her on it, and be clear that you are not the only one who thinks she's rude, nor is it the only time you've had to suffer her bad attitude. Then stop asking her to dance. If enough people do that to her, one of three things will probably happen:

1. She will quickly realize what a grade "A" bitch she is and change her evil ways
2. She will slowly realize what a grade "A" bitch she is and change her evil ways after enough leads have stopped dancing with her and she spends more time sitting pine than dancing, or
3. People will stop dancing with her, causing her to quit dancing and leave the scene, thus sparing a lot of unsuspecting people the distinct displeasure of dancing with her.

Or, you might find out who her friends are and mention her attitude to one or two of them. She may change if she hears about it from people she respects.

This post has been edited by Bessie Smith on Nov 12, 2002 04:09 PM

Oh, goodness, I never do ask this woman to dance, I just get stuck with her in rotation at workshops, etc.

I think your suggestions are great, Bessie. I'll politely but firmly confront her if I ever am at the receiving end of her rudeness again, and I'll encourage my fellow leads to do the same. And if the talking-with doesn't work, I may also 'escalate' the matter by chatting with one of her friends (assuming she has some). Heh heh, well, she does seem to hang with rockstars and perhaps is nicer to them.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that she is unawaredly bitchy, and not spitefully mean. If there's any change in my views, or if she pulls another noteworthy insult out of her hat, I'll let y'all know here. Or, heck, if she changes her ways, I'll note that here, too! :)

But no, I am not naming names. At least two of you ST readers out there know who I'm talkin' about. If anyone else wants to compare notes, I'll confirm or deny that the person who may have dissed you is the same as the woman I've described here.

And lastly, yeah, Bessie, I think you hit upon one of the core issues here: It's not cool when someone acts in a way that is likely to scare new dancers off.

QUOTE

1. She will quickly realize what a grade "A" bitch she is and change her evil ways 2. She will slowly realize what a grade "A" bitch she is and change her evil ways after enough leads have stopped dancing with her and she spends more time sitting pine than dancing, or

Unfortunately neither one will probably happen. Studies have shown that incompetent people rarely realize that they are indeed-- incompetent. Biatchy people usually don't see themselves as being that way and assume the problem is with everyone else. If people stop dancing with her, it'll probably reinforce her delusional notion that her mad skillz are just too intimidating for most leads to approach her.

WE WANT NAMES!! At least tell us where she dances at.

While I agree that most of the time, certain types of people don't change, those same people are capable of changing to meet certain situations. If she likes dancing and doesn't want to get frozen out, she will adjust her behavior to be more cordial when she's out dancing. I know a few people who are generally somewhat rude, but are quite nice when they are dancing with someone.

Heck, I'm pretty damn bitchy myself, but I know better than to display such an attitude on the dance floor.

QUOTE (ThatAdamGuy @ Nov 12, 2002 11:59 AM)

"You DO know Lindy Hop, don't you?!"

Heh, I usually say no and keep on dancing. But, that's just me.

Things along those lines have happened to me before.

I calmly explain that Lindy Hop is *not* only 8 counts, and I usually point out that in the old clips, such as Hellzapoppin' (which is about as universally recognized as any clip I suppose), Whitey's Lindy Hoppers did plenty of 6, 8, and other odd count steps. I then explain that the music dictates how I dance, and that leading on "one" every time is not what the music tells me as well. I insist on starting in closed position, usually by moving the girl into that position before I start dancing... but occasionally having to explain "I always start in closed position". (I did sufficiently complain about starting in open position right?). I will then explain that six count steps are not necessarily east coast swing if they mutter some nonsense about starting with east coast before switching to lindy hop.

If this starts an argument, I quietly listen, finish the dance (if I'm dancing), thank them and leave.

After I get over my incident, I will ask them to dance again.

I have found that I am a good enough dancer that my opinion eventually is respected, if not accepted by newbies who think they know it all. Hey, I used to think I knew more than I did too. Patience and kindness pays off.

Pinar, your "no" case is interesting, particularly because it could go two ways.

Some beginners need coaxing to get them on the dance floor. They will say no once or twice, and need to be encouraged to dance. In the end, they usually love it, and are grateful that they were dragged onto the floor.

A regular dancer, however, that says no should be respected.

Adam, I KNOW you won't give up the name of the follow, but I am almost sure I know who it is. The 'infamous' one who takes the class & dance on thursday nights! (hint enough?)

This follow, if I am correct, is the one many leads have spoke about regarding continual rudeness. I even had another follow tell me about her.

I don't know if she really knows she's rude. But she's not a space cadet, so I'm guessing she doesn't give a damn, which WILL scare off newbies. That's the crummy part in all this garbage.

During the 'change partners' dance once, I looked around and there she was, right next to me. No one else was close, and I walked away, rather than dance.

Not good. Not constructive. It just HAPPENED. Thy Lindy Gods shall forever look sternly :angry: upon me for that one, but it wasn't planned.

Unfortunatly, rudeness can lead to stuff like that. Guess I need some Lindy counseling on avoidance behavioral issues! B)